“I was born in Kansas City, Missouri, and I do know from what my parents tell me that I was always interested in art, although not very good at it.” KnowsArtParentBornCitiesVery GoodKansasMissouriKansas City Author:Warren MacKenzie
“At that [childhood] time, of course, if you were involved in art, it was going to be drawing and painting, because that's the only thing that was taught in the schools.” IfsArtSchoolCoursesChildhoodTaughtPaintingInvolvedDrawingDrawing And Painting Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I thought, oh, I'm going to be a painter. And eventually my family had moved near Chicago, and when I graduated from high school, I went to the Chicago Art Institute, and it was there that I thought, well, now I'm going to be a painter.” WellsArtSchoolHigh SchoolMy FamilyMovedPainterChicagoInstitute Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I went to the Chicago Art Institute, which was the best painting school in the area at that time. And I took painting classes - basic elementary painting classes and drawing classes of all sorts.” ArtSchoolClassPaintingAreasDrawingChicagoInstitute Author:Warren MacKenzie
“In the middle of my second year at school, in 1943, I got drafted into the army, was gone for three years, and when I came back, I tried to get into the painting classes which I wanted, but because of all the returned GIs [the GI Bill], everyone was in school and the classes were all full. So I looked at the catalogue and found that there was a ceramic class offered and that there was space in that. I registered for a ceramic class and some drawing classes.” YearsWantedSchoolThreeFoundSpaceClassGoneMiddlePaintingArmyBillsDrawingThree YearsCataloguesGisCeramics Author:Warren MacKenzie
“What I didn't know at the time [of my scholarship] was that the ceramic class was not really a very good class. This was many years ago and should not reflect on the conditions at the Art Institute of Chicago to this day, but we didn't know anything and we started to learn about how to work with clay.” KnowsShouldYearsArtClassConditionsYears AgoVery GoodThis DayChicagoClayScholarshipInstituteCeramics Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We both [with Alixandra Kolesky MacKenzie] got into ceramics, you might say, by the back door. Looking back on it, I think this was a very good thing.” ThinkingMightDoorsGood ThingsVery GoodLooking BackBack DoorsCeramics Author:Warren MacKenzie
“In fact, I believe to a certain extent a person today who starts with just clay, with no drawing and no painting and no figure drawing, still-life drawing, various things, they miss a great deal.” BelievePersonsStillsFactsTodayCertainI BelieveDealsMissingFiguresPaintingVariousDrawingClayStill Life Author:Warren MacKenzie
“In working on a drawing or a painting, one can rework and rework and rework and change ideas until you get it the way you think is right at that time. With clay that's not possible. You either succeed the first time, or you should wad it up and start over again, because you can't mess around with the clay and still have it fresh.” ThinkingWayShouldFirstsStillsIdeasPaintingSucceedFirst TimeDrawingMessClayStarting OverRework Author:Warren MacKenzie
“When we finished [training with my wife] we came to St. Paul, because St. Paul was the first place where we got a job offer and we needed some sort of a job to earn some money in order to set up our own studio. It's rather ironic that this job offer came originally through the Walker Art Center.” FirstsArtJobsOrderWifeNeededOffersTrainingStudiosMy WifeFinishedIronicWalkers Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Hilda Reiss was the head of the Everyday Art Gallery. Hilda Reiss came from Germany, had trained at the original Bauhaus in Germany, and her training inspired her to think of anything that she liked as art.” ThinkingArtTrainingOriginalsInspiredEverydayGermanyGalleryArt Galleries Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We moved up here [to St.Paul with my wife] and started to teach, we very quickly found out we were not equipped either to teach or to run our own pottery, and so we decided that we had to have further training.” RunningFoundTeachWifeTrainingDecidedMovedMy WifePottery Author:Warren MacKenzie
“In searching for further training we turned to England and Bernard Leach. We thought since we had responded to his book so strongly that this would be the sort of training that we would like to have. We saved money, during the summer went to Europe, and the first stop was to go to England, visit the Leach Pottery and ask Leach if he would take us on as apprentices.” IfsFirstsBookWould BeAsksSummerTrainingEuropeEnglandSavedApprenticePottery Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I was a very hard-edged geometric painter, strongly influenced by [Piet] Mondrian and [Theo] van Doesburg and that sort of thing.” HardPainterVansGeometric Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Alix [MacKenzie] was a looser, more linear painter, dealing with amoebic forms, let's say, close to [Joan] Miró as opposed to my more static exploration of space.” FormSpacePainterExplorationStaticLinear Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I thought I was going to be able to use my painting ideas as decoration on pottery, but my painting did not translate into decoration on pottery. I thought it was going to, and in fact I made, while still in school, a plate with one of my paintings on it, and that's exactly what it was, it was a plate with a painting on it. It was not a decorated plate; it was just a painting superimposed over a three-dimensional ceramic form.” MadeStillsIdeasFactsUseAbleSchoolFormThreePaintingPlatesTranslateDecorationPotteryCeramics Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Alix [MacKenzie], on the other hand, found that her painting would translate much more readily into decoration, and she could play with the spacing and the intensity of imagery on the form in a way which I could not. So that when we established our pottery, I was most unhappy with my decoration.” WayPlayHandsFormFoundPaintingUnhappyIntensityTranslateImageryDecorationPotterySpacing Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Finally if I had a pot that needed decoration, I would hand it to Alix [MacKenzie] and I would say, "Can you do something with this?" And she'd look at it for a while and then proceed with a brush to embellish the form and enhance the form, and it was wonderful. She could bring the pot to life, whereas if I did it, it was a disaster.” IfsLooksHandsFormWonderfulNeededDisasterPotBrushesDecoration Author:Warren MacKenzie
“So I very quickly stopped almost all decoration. I was interested in the three-dimensional form of the pots, but my decoration was nonexistent.” FormThreePotDecoration Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I took a number of graphic courses, lithography and etching and wood engraving [at Art Institute]. And particularly as I got more and more into ceramics, I thought, life drawing doesn't have anything to do with ceramics.” ArtCoursesNumbersWoodsDrawingGraphicInstituteThoughts On LifeCeramicsEtching Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I found out later on that was not true, that life drawing tells you a great deal about rhythm, about the structure of a human being or any animate object, and this could be directly translated into thinking about proportion and accent, rhythm in a pot form.” ThinkingHumansFormFoundHuman BeingsDealsObjectsStructureDrawingRhythmProportionPotAccents Author:Warren MacKenzie
“[ Bernard] Leach was the one who taught us that, because he, too, had started out as a painter and an etcher and had only gotten into ceramics by chance when he was in Japan trying to teach the Japanese how to do etching, which, as he said, they were not ready for yet.” TryingSaidChanceTeachTaughtReadyPainterJapanNot ReadyTaught UsCeramicsEtching Author:Warren MacKenzie
“There was a school in Chicago called the School of Design. This was started by [Laszló] Moholy-Nagy, and it was a wonderful school, but we [with Alix MacKenzie] didn't go to that school. We did have friends who went to that school and we would visit there often, and I'm sure it pushed me in my painting direction very strongly just by association.” SchoolWonderfulDesignPaintingChicagoAssociationVery Strong Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We stayed on at the Institute [Chicago called the School of Design] because that was - I don't know, you start at one place and you stay there, I guess. Inertia takes over.” KnowsSchoolDesignChicagoInstituteInertia Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I started to do silk-screen in the early days of my painting training, due to a woman who taught art history at the institute, Kathleen Blackshear. She was interested in silk screen and taught a class that I took.” ArtClassTaughtPaintingTrainingDuesScreensInstituteSilkArt History Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I got drafted into the army and by pure chance was pushed into a silk-screen shop at this camp where I was, because they could not get training posters fast enough out of a central source in Washington, D.C. So they set up their own shop to print training posters: how to dismantle a machine gun, etc.” EnoughChanceSourcePureTrainingGunMachinesArmyScreensShopsEtcPrintCampsSilkPostersMachine Guns Author:Warren MacKenzie
“[I made in army] all sorts of dumb things, but it did teach me a lot about the silk-screen process.” MadeProcessTeachArmyScreensDumbSilkDumb Things Author:Warren MacKenzie
“That [silk-screen process experience] carried over when I returned from the Army and took more graphic classes at the Institute. And Alix [MacKenzie] and I actually began to produce a line of textiles, which had silk-screen patterns on them.” ProcessLinesClassProduceArmyPatternsScreensGraphicInstituteSilkTextiles Author:Warren MacKenzie
“When you're young, you think you can do anything, and we thought.” ThinkingYoungCan Do Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We'll be potters, we'll be painters, we'll be textile designers, we'll be jewelers, we'll be a little this, a little of that. We were going to be the renaissance people [when we were young].” PeopleLittlesYoungPainterDesignerPottersRenaissanceTextiles Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Chicago is a wonderful area because it's blessed with a tremendous number of museums of various sorts, not only the Art Institute of Chicago but the Field Museum of Natural History, the Oriental Museum on the south side.” ArtSidesNaturalNumbersWonderfulFieldsAreasBlessedSouthVariousMuseumsChicagoInstituteNatural HistoryMuseum Of Natural History Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Our main inspiration [with Alix MacKenzie], I think, came from the Field Museum of Natural History, because they had pieces which were selected not for art content but for their relationship to the anthropological history of mankind.” ThinkingArtInspirationNaturalPiecesMankindFieldsMuseumsSelectedNatural HistoryMuseum Of Natural History Author:Warren MacKenzie
“[In the Field Museum of Natural History] we could see very simple, primitive, hand-built pottery from Babylonia and ancient Egypt and so forth, Greece. We could see the most sophisticated things that came out of the Orient - Japan, Korea, and China - some few pieces of European porcelain, majolica [tin glazed earthenware], and that sort of thing. But they had a marvelous collection.” HandsNaturalSimplePiecesFieldsBuiltAncientChinaCollectionsJapanMuseumsPrimitiveSophisticatedMarvelousEgyptGreeceKoreaTinAncient EgyptPotteryNatural HistoryPorcelainMuseum Of Natural History Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Other thing about [Field Museum of Natural History] which inspired was that in a group of pots you wouldn't see a single example of this kind of pot. You would perhaps see a case with 20 different examples. So you realize that these pots could be repeated again and again, and each time there would be minor variations in them.” KindDifferentWould BeRealizingNaturalCasesGroupsExampleFieldsInspiredMuseumsPotMinorsAgain And AgainVariationNatural HistoryMuseum Of Natural History Author:Warren MacKenzie
“In looking at these pots at the Field Museum, Alix [MacKenzie] and I both came to a conclusion individually but also collectively that the pots that really interested us were the pots that people had used in their everyday life, and we began to think - I mean, whether it was ancient Greece or Africa or Europe or wherever, the pots that people had used in their homes were the ones that excited us.” PeopleThinkingMeanHomeUsedFieldsEuropeEverydayAncientExcitedConclusionMuseumsPotEveryday LifeGreeceAncient Greece Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We thought [with Alix MacKenzie], if those are the kinds of pots from every culture that interest us, why would we think that it should be any different in mid-North America 20th century? And we decided then that our work would center around that sort of utilitarian pottery, and that's what I've done ever since.” IfsThinkingShouldKindDifferentDoneAmericaCultureInterestCenturyDecidedPot20th CenturyNorth AmericaPotteryUtilitarian Author:Warren MacKenzie
“I find it really enriching to make pots which people are using and which they come in contact with, not only visually in their homes but tactilely - when they pick them up, when they wash them after dinner, and so on and so forth.” PeopleHomePicksDinnerContactPotEnriching Author:Warren MacKenzie
“This is something which I think I have been able to communicate to both people I have taught and people that have purchased our work since that time, that they all say, it's so nice to have these pots with us all the time and to eat out of them and be in direct contact with them in our homes.” PeopleThinkingHas BeensHomeAbleNiceTaughtDirectCommunicateContactPot Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Remember, this is back in the '40s, and the idea of a museum being a place where interested people could come in direct contact with works hadn't arrived on the scene yet. That, I think, I first ran into at the Freer Gallery in Washington, D.C., where a man named Marty [Martin] Amt decided that he really felt his job - part of his job, as an assistant [to the] director was to make the collection available to interested people.” PeopleThinkingMenFirstsIdeasJobsRememberFeltSceneDirectorsDirectDecidedAvailableContactRanCollectionsMuseumsGalleryAssistantsMarty Author:Warren MacKenzie
“The two teachers that I had in the Art Institute who affected me the most were Kathleen Blackshear and Robert von Neumann; Kathleen Blackshear because she taught a class called design - I can't remember, design something, and in this class - it met once a week - we would do work centered around some theme, word or subject or technique or whatever, and bring it in for a three-hour discussion. And Kathleen was able, in watching and looking at our work, to direct us to all kinds of things which might relate to what we were trying to do, but she never attempted to tell us what to do.” TryingKindArtI CanTwoMightAbleRememberThreeHoursClassTeacherWeekSubjectsDesignTaughtMetsDirectTechniqueAll KindsRelateDiscussionThemeAffectedInstituteVon Neumann Author:Warren MacKenzie
“[Kathleen Blackshear] just said, "Have you thought of looking at this?" and so on and so on and so on. And it was a discussion group where everyone had a say, and it was a tremendous learning experience.” SaidGroupsDiscussionLearning Experience Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Robert von Neumann taught painting, and when I finally got into a painting class of his, he reacted in much the same way.” WayClassTaughtPaintingVon Neumann Author:Warren MacKenzie
“It was a figure painting class, where you had a model, and [Robert von Neumann ] would wander around and he'd come up behind someone and say, "Well, what are you trying to do?" And if you told him what you were trying to do, he would then proceed to discuss this with you and suggest things that you might look at and ways in which you could improve what you were attempting to do, etc - never worked on your painting, never touched your painting but talked extensively about what you were trying to do.” IfsWayTryingWellsLooksMightBehindsClassFiguresPaintingModelsCome UpWanderEtcTouchedAttemptingVon NeumannFigure Painting Author:Warren MacKenzie
“If you didn't know what you were trying to do, [Robert von Neumann] wouldn't say a word. He would just turn and walk away. So you very quickly learned to think that you'd better be attempting to do something in that painting class.” IfsThinkingKnowsTryingTurnsWalksClassPaintingAttemptingVon Neumann Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Those two teachers [Kathleen Blackshear and Robert von Neumann] were just fantastic, I thought. They never directed you in a single direction, but they just encouraged you to think for yourself.” ThinkingTwoTeacherFantasticThink For YourselfVon Neumann Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We [with Alix MacKenzie] had decided we needed further training, and certainly Leach was the one we turned to. So we went to England this summer and we took examples of our work along with us and showed them to Bernard Leach and told him what we were trying to do. And of course he took one look at our work and he said - very quickly he said, "I'm sorry, we're full up," and this was his way of politely saying, you just don't make the cut.” WayTryingLooksSaidCoursesCuttingExampleNeededSummerTrainingDecidedEnglandSorryI'm Sorry Author:Warren MacKenzie
“Every day we'd trudge up the hill - it was a three-quarter-mile walk up this steep hill to the Leach Pottery, and we would take our lunch with us and generally, I guess, make a nuisance of ourselves.” ThreeWalksMilesHillsLunchQuartersSteepNuisancePottery Author:Warren MacKenzie
“We asked a lot of questions and we watched everyone who was working in the studio. And we had an opportunity to sit in on discussions, aesthetic discussions at the pottery, which took place generally over tea breaks in the morning and afternoon. So we learned a lot just from being around there [with Bernard Leach ].” OpportunityBreakMorningStudiosTeaDiscussionAfternoonAestheticPottery Author:Warren MacKenzie
“At the end of that two weeks Bernard [Leach] asked us if we would like to sit with him tending the kiln, the big oil-fired kiln that they had. He was still sitting what we call a kiln watch at that time, and he wondered if we would like to sit the watch with him and talk. So naturally this was our last opportunity to talk with him, so we said yes. We didn't realize Bernard's kiln watch was from 1:00 in the morning until 4:00 AM.” IfsSaidStillsTwoEndsBigsLastsOpportunityRealizingWatchesMorningWeekSittingOilTwo WeeksBig Oil Author:Warren MacKenzie
“The interesting thing was we never talked about pottery. Bernard [Leach] talked about social issues; he talked about the world political situation, he talked about the economy, he talked about all kinds of things.” WorldKindPoliticalSocialInterestingSituationEconomyIssuesAll KindsSocial IssuesInteresting ThingsPottery Author:Warren MacKenzie